Negotiate to End the Russia-Ukraine War

W.J. Astore

Zelensky is no Chamberlain; talking is not appeasement

A fascinating aspect of the Russia-Ukraine War is the argument that negotiation would be unwise, especially if Ukraine were to initiate it.  Typical arguments include that you can’t negotiate with a dictator like Putin, that negotiation would be a sign of weakness and would somehow reward Putin for his invasion, and that negotiation is ipso facto appeasement that would lead to further (and much wider) Russian attacks.  All these arguments are faulty.

First, my pro-Ukrainian friends tell me that Ukraine is winning the war and therefore resolution will come with total victory at the front.  Perhaps so, but fortunes of war often prove fickle.  If indeed Ukraine has a winning edge, what better time to negotiate?  It’s always preferable to negotiate from a position of strength, so now is the time, assuming Putin is amenable.  What’s to be lost by asking?

Second, negotiation, again from a position of strength, is the very opposite of appeasement.  When Neville Chamberlain infamously negotiated with Adolf Hitler in 1938, he was doing so from a position of relative weakness.  Nazi Germany was rearming and mobilizing for World War II, and Great Britain and its allies were very much behind.  Hitler, of course, lied that territory in Czechoslovakia was his “last demand,” but few in the know were truly fooled about the danger Hitler and the German military represented.  Still, Chamberlain hoped that a viable treaty to prevent war was possible, even as Britain and its allies began in earnest to prepare for war as the “peace” deal was being struck.

Interestingly, Hitler didn’t see Chamberlain’s “appeasement” as a victory.  He was livid.  Hitler wanted to go to war in 1938.  The deal Hitler struck delayed his attack on Poland until September of 1939.  By the time Germany attacked Britain and France in May of 1940, the British were better prepared, materially and mentally, to resist Hitler. (The shockingly quick fall of France is another story entirely.)

One could argue that Chamberlain’s failed appeasement delayed Hitler’s war plans to an extent that ultimately favored eventual allied victory.  Hitler was, after all, decisively defeated five years after he launched his invasion of France.  And, after Hitler betrayed his promises to Chamberlain, there was no doubt whatsoever among the allies that military victory was the only way to end the Nazi threat.

My point is that even Chamberlain’s dreadful “appeasement” wasn’t quite as bad as we’re so often told.  More importantly to this moment: No one mistakes Zelensky and his soldier-like image for Chamberlain with his umbrella.  Again, Zelensky and Ukraine have fought well; their resistance has been steadfast.  Why not negotiate?  Ukraine may win more at the negotiating table than it ever could on the battlefield, while sparing the lives of countless Ukrainian (and Russian) troops.

Third, another argument I’ve heard is that, if the war ends by negotiation, Putin and Russia will just reinvade after a period of rest and rearming.  Anything is possible, but why would Putin relaunch a war that’s already proven to be a quagmire?  And won’t Ukraine also use the time to rest and rearm, with plenty of help from the U.S. and NATO?

Wars don’t have to end in total victory or total defeat.  One side doesn’t have to collapse in exhaustion or to flee ignominiously.  Wars can be ended by negotiation if both parties are open to compromise. Temper tantrums at the negotiating table are better than more bullets and bombs and bodies.

Ukraine and Russia share a long border and a tempestuous history.  They need to learn to live together, else they will surely die together, as they are now.  Why not talk and choose life over more death?

27 thoughts on “Negotiate to End the Russia-Ukraine War

  1. On negotiations, American economist, academic, public policy analyst, and former director of The Earth Institute at Columbia University Jeffrey Sachs offers this as a basic start point for everybody…:

    A MEDIATOR’S GUIDE TO PEACE IN UKRAINE [Excerpts]
    https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/zacd4hftrfzht9ty3nghwccykbwzzy [EMPHASES added]

    … Now is the time for mediation, based on the core interests and bargaining space of the three main parties to the conflict: Russia, Ukraine, and the United States. There are four core issues to negotiate [which Sachs details]:

    Ukraine demands above all to be a sovereign country, free from Russia’s domination, and with secure borders.

    Russia demands above all that NATO renounce its intention to expand to Ukraine and Georgia, which would fully encircle Russia in the black sea (adding Ukraine and Georgia to existing Black Sea NATO members Bulgaria, Romania, and Turkey).

    Russia also claims Crimea as home to Russia’s black sea fleet since 1783.

    Ukraine and Russia differ heatedly over the Donbas, with its predominantly ethnic Russian population.

    The Minsk II agreement of 2015 was a diplomatic agreement to end the fighting, based on autonomy (self-government) for the Donbas region within Ukrainian borders, and respect for the Russian language and culture. AFTER SIGNING, UKRAINIAN LEADERS MADE CLEAR THAT THEY RESENTED THE AGREEMENT AND WOULD NOT HONOR IT. FROM RUSSIA’S POINT OF VIEW, UKRAINE AND THE WEST THEREBY REPUDIATED A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION TO THE CONFLICT.

    In late 2021, Putin reiterated Russia’s demand for no further enlargement of NATO, especially to Ukraine. THE US REFUSED TO NEGOTIATE OVER NATO ENLARGEMENT.

    In March 2022, a month after the Russian invasion, PUTIN AND UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY MADE SUBSTANTIAL PROGRESS ON A PRAGMATIC NEGOTIATED END TO THE WAR, based on NATO non-enlargement, international guarantees of sovereignty and security for Ukraine, and the issues of Crimea and the Donbas to be resolved peacefully down the road.

    Yet UKRAINE THEN WALKED AWAY FROM THE NEGOTIATING TABLE, PERHAPS AT UK AND US PRODDING, AND ADOPTED THE POLICY OF REFUSING NEGOTIATIONS UNTIL RUSSIA WAS DRIVEN OUT OF UKRAINE BY MILITARY ACTION.

    CONCLUSION: The contours of successful mediation are actually clear, as is the basis for a peace settlement. The main point for mediation is that ALL PARTIES HAVE LEGITIMATE INTERESTS AND LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES:

    Russia wrongly and violently invaded Ukraine;

    The US wrongly conspired in the overthrow of Yanukovych in 2014, and then heavily armed Ukraine while pushing NATO enlargement to encircle Russia in the Black Sea;

    Following Yanukovych, Ukrainian presidents Poroshenko and Zelensky refused to implement the Minsk II agreement.

    PEACE WILL COME WHEN:

    The US backs away from further NATO enlargement towards Russia’s borders;

    Russia withdraws its military forces from Ukraine and backs away from the unilateral annexation of Ukrainian territory;

    Ukraine backs away from its attempts to retake Crimea and from its repudiation of the Minsk II framework;

    All parties agree to secure the sovereign borders of Ukraine under the UN charter and backed by the guarantees of the UN Security Council and other nations.
    [Note: This leaves the future of the Donbas, etc areas undetermined; but it is definitely a start. ]

    It is time for the US and Russia, TWO GREAT POWERS OF BOTH THE PAST AND FUTURE, TO SHOW THEIR GREATNESS THROUGH MUTUAL RESPECT, DIPLOMACY, AND COMMON EFFORTS TO ENSURE SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT FOR ALL – INCLUDING FOR THE PEOPLE OF UKRAINE, WHO ARE MOST URGENTLY IN NEED OF PEACE AND RECONSTRUCTION.

    ###

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  2. Last December Putin sent his security concerns to both the US and Nato and was ignored. Who does Russia have to negotiate with? As Merkel just said Minsk agreements were a stall for time to arm Ukraine. Regan’s promise to Gorbechev didn’t go very far. We’ve pulled out of almost all the arms treaties. Who in the West can be trusted?

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    1. I have a friend who takes the exact opposite view. Putin can’t be trusted. Putin is evil. The U.S. government under Biden is right and Zelensky is a great leader.

      Somewhere, somehow, someone has to step up and say enough is enough with all the killing. Find a way ahead without war and destruction — it can be done.

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      1. I concur with the facts that MICHELLE HANSEN has succinctly presented.

        Regarding your friend, Bill, he (or she) needs to take off the green glasses before describing the world as his (or her) very own Emerald City. How out of touch with reality can one person get? “Not in Kansas anymore” barely suffices to describe such infantile views.

        As for “negotiations” involving the United States — the erstwhile puppeteer running (to its ruin) the Nazi-infested Kiev Regime since 2014 — no one at this time can accurately discern which of several corrupt feuding factions actually runs U.S. domestic and foreign policy. Certainly the demented dullard in the White House doesn’t. Precisely with whom would any Russian, Chinese, Iranian, or Indian diplomat discuss serious matters of state? “Somewhere, somehow, someone” hardly serves to identify an accountable U.S. official capable of dealing with serious, internationally respected leaders like Vladimir Putin and Xi Jin-ping, to name only the two most significant statesmen currently in a position to make important and lasting agreements between nations.

        Any number of elected and/or appointed U.S. officials have baldly asserted their intention to overthrow the present government of the Russian Federation so as to dismember and plunder — as in the “Shock Doctrine” 1990s — that vast nation’s natural resources. The Russians, Chinese, Iranians, and Indians — along with Saudi Arabia and many of the oil-rich Gulf States — understand this threat, but have had enough of America’s belligerent browbeating and have begun setting up useful alternatives to our hopelessly indebted disintegrating post-WWII empire. And the sooner that lunatic leviathan goes belly-up, the better for everyone.

        Finally, all persons of genuine good will abhor the death and destruction attendant upon war — at least in the abstract — but when killing for wealth presents itself as plausible, resort to war becomes the first, rather than the last, option. So, at least, the history of the United States since its inception — but most egregiously since 1945 — demonstrates. As many astute Russians observed upon the voluntary dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1989: “Seventy years on the road to nowhere.” But the reorganized Russian Federation has come back from that national nadir and has learned from it. Now comes America’s turn to either learn from an imminent, well-deserved defeat or — as per usual — simply attempt to forget it in favor of another “splendid little war” somewhere else. Panama and Grenada come to mind but Serbia has also started looking like a possible distraction at the moment.

        We will just have to see how Russia and China manage to settle things. The United States, for its chosen part, has become largely irrelevant.

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        1. Mike, there’s one saying you taught me that I won’t forget: You can’t do a wrong thing the right way.

          For far too long, America’s various leaders have done their damndest to prove the accuracy of that saying, and far too many ordinary Americans (as well as so many others even less fortunate) have suffered the consequences.

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      2. Last April Russia and Ukraine were in peace talks and Boris Johnson flew in and told Ukraine if they went along with it… no more money for you. Zelensky took the money and ran. Once again, who does Russia have to talk to and who can they trust?

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  3. A very interesting and insightful 2 hour discussion and analysis of the US WAR with Russia over Ukraine in NATO with Col. Douglas Macgregor uploaded Yesterday.
    ‘Odessa falls and Ukraine becomes a landlocked country’

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    1. I think Col. Macgregor is really smart and I watched 30 minutes of the 2 hours last night. I watched 45 minutes Tonight.
      I’m certain the Russian Military eagerly anticipates his latest analysis as do I every Day looking for his latest!

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  4. WAR IN UKRAINE
    ‘Royal Marines deployed on ‘high-risk covert operations’ in Ukraine’
    The Royal Marines have taken part in covert operations in Ukraine, a senior general has admitted for the first time.
    Lieutenant General Robert Magowan said that the commandos supported “discreet operations” in a “hugely sensitive environment”. He said that their missions carried “a high level of political and military risk”.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-marines-deployed-on-high-risk-covert-operations-in-ukraine-r7b50gv3p

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  5. Meanwhile, The Bern comes thru again.

    One wonders how different things would be [and have been] if the leader of the Sandersistas had been the Dems’ candidate in 2016 and had won the election.

    Based on his performance re the US War on Russia in Ukraine, probably not a whole lot different than what happened under Trump and now Biden… :

    SANDERS WITHDRAWS YEMEN WAR POWERS RESOLUTION VOTE OVER BIDEN OPPOSITION: The White House Asking Senators To Vote Against The Resolution And Threatened Biden Would Veto The Bill:

    https://scheerpost.com/2022/12/14/sanders-withdraws-yemen-war-powers-resolution-vote-over-biden-opposition/

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  6. The primary reason that the prospects for ending the American War against Russia in Ukraine via negotiations are close to Nil and Void is that the only people who would benefit from that War ending anytime soon ~ in order of the benefits reaped and suffering terminated ~ are:

    ~ 1. The Ukrainian People;
    ~ 2. The Russian People;
    ~ 3. The People of NATO nations as Winter settles in;
    ~ 4. Americans.

    The current political, military, financial, and economic Leadership/Ownership of the governments of Ukraine, Russia, NATO nations, and, particularly, the US, have absolutely NOTHING to gain whatsoever by an end to that War anytime soon. [Except, no doubt, the inevitable Nobel “Peace” Prize for ending it, like Kissinger and Le Duc Tho got in 1973 for their deal to “end” the American War in Vietnam; which then went on for two more years.]

    And these same folks have been doing nothing but gaining individual, organizational, and institutional Power and Wealth ever since this whole thing started back in 2014 with the US-sponsored/-supported Coup.

    So why in the world would they want to see it end now? In the absence of any credible “threat” from Islamist Terrorists, this is the only War America’s MICC has to jam down America’s and the Planet’s throat.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Oh Boy, Oh “Joy To The World!!!” And just in time for the Holidays too… :

    U.S. CLOSE TO PROVIDING PATRIOT MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEM TO UKRAINE – OFFICIALS [Excerpts] by Idrees Ali and Phil Stewart 121322

    WASHINGTON, Dec 13 (Reuters) – The United States is finalizing plans to send the Patriot missile defense system to Ukraine, a decision that could be announced as soon as this week, three U.S. officials told Reuters on Tuesday.

    Ukraine has asked its Western partners for air defenses, including U.S.-made Patriot systems, to protect it from heavy Russian missile bombardment including against its energy infrastructure.

    The Patriot is considered to be one of the most advanced U.S. air defense systems and is usually in short supply, with allies around the world vying for it.

    “It’s very, very significant,” said Alexander Vindman, a retired Army lieutenant colonel who led Ukraine policy at the White House during the Trump administration. [Note: Vindman, eh? Why is that name familiar?]

    “These are going to be quite capable of dealing with a lot of different challenges the Ukrainians have, ESPECIALLY IF THE RUSSIANS BRING IN SHORT-RANGE BALLISTIC MISSILES” FROM IRAN.” [Note: Heh. Everybody wanted to go to Baghdad, remember? Well, Real Men STILL want to go to Tehran.]

    Two of the officials, SPEAKING ON CONDITION OF ANONYMITY [Don’t these “reliable sources” always?] said the announcement could come as early as Thursday but was awaiting formal approval from U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and President Joe Biden.

    The Pentagon declined comment on reports about the Patriot system at a news briefing.

    One of the officials said Ukrainian forces would likely be trained in Germany before the Patriot equipment was sent to Ukraine. Vindman said the training could take several months.

    Details such as the version of the Patriot missile defense system, its range or how many units would be sent were not immediately available.

    It was unclear if the United States would limit how the Ukrainians employ the Patriot system. Washington has restricted use of High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) launchers to targets inside Ukraine.

    RUSSIAN WARNING Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has warned NATO against providing Ukraine with Patriot missile defenses, and IT IS LIKELY MOSCOW WILL VIEW THE MOVE AS AN ESCALATION… .

    Full article at https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-finalizing-plans-send-patriot-missile-defense-system-ukraine-officials-2022-12-13/ [EMPHASES added.]

    For details on the Patriot, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot

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      1. And what would be the US’s reaction to that?

        Even more importantly, what would be Russia’s reaction if a couple of those Patriots were fired from, say, Germany or Poland or some other NATO nation?

        Like i said: Oh Boy and Joy to The World!!! Just in time for the Holidays.

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          1. How could i? For those who have ~ or who have never heard about it ~ here’s the BBC’s take on it 10 years ago in 2012:

            NORTH VIETNAM, 1972: THE CHRISTMAS BOMBING OF HANOI by Rebecca Kesby, BBC World Service
            24 December 2012

            The biggest ever bombing campaign by US B-52 aircraft took place over Christmas 40 years ago, when the US dropped at least 20,000 tonnes of explosives on North Vietnam, mostly Hanoi. More than 1,000 Vietnamese died, but some claim the assault may have helped bring about the deal signed a month later that led to an end to US involvement in the war… .

            https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20719382

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            1. Note: That “deal signed a month later that led to an end to US involvement in the war” was the deal that got Henry Kissinger and Le Duc Tho their afore-mentioned Nobel “Peace” Prize.

              Seems a good way to become a candidate for that is to first start a War, eh?

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  8. A 3 hour, interesting so far, discussion of the US WAR with Russia over Ukraine on the Duran with Alex, Alexander, Brian Berletic, and Gonzalo Lira.

    Of course it’s all informed speculation, but I think most everyone has an innate sense of Truth and Trust free from any Political Agenda when they see it!

    https://rumble.com/v20eau4-zelenskys-three-step-peace-plan-wbrian-berletic-from-the-new-atlas-and-gonz.html

    Disappointing to see only SoundEagle from Australia came to read and like the link posted upstream yesterday to ‘ALL SOULS DAY TO REMEMBRANCE DAY’.
    Remembrance Day in CanaDa is known as Veterans Day in the US.

    How many Bodies and SOULS have been killed in all the Wars in Human History since the Tower of Babel?
    Seeing it as it is Today, ALL NATIONS have their own version of that Tower that preceded the arrival of Babylon.

    THE TOWER OF BABEL & THE BEGINNING OF NATIONS

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  9. This is a very bullet-hits-the-bone insightful [and chuckle-generating] look at the Pentagon’s recent Audit Failure.

    It should be mandatory reading for every person being sworn into the 118th Congress of the United States on January 3, 2023. And mandatory reading for every American who cares about what America will be on its 250th birthday. July 4, 2026, 1,297 days from today.

    It concludes as follows: “So, let’s sum this horror show up — as The Nation magazine said before they found a horse head in their bed and purged the article from their site, “…the Pentagon’s accounting fraud amounts to theft on a grand scale—theft not only from America’s taxpayers, but also from the nation’s well-being and its future.”

    “And that is why the Pentagon just flunked their fifth-ever audit. THEY WILL NEVER HAVE A LEGIT AUDIT. BECAUSE IF THEY DID, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WOULD REALIZE WE’VE BEEN SALUTING AND CELEBRATING AND GLORIFYING THE LARGEST MONEY-LAUNDERING OPERATION IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY. KILLING THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE IS ALMOST AN AFTERTHOUGHT TO OUR RULING ELITE. THAT’S JUST WHAT THEY DO WHEN THEY’RE BORED. THEIR REAL LOVE, THEIR TRUE PASSION, IS THEFT AND FRAUD.”

    #######

    PENTAGON ADMITS THEY CAN’T ACCOUNT FOR HALF THEIR ASSETS AMID LATEST AUDIT FAILURE by Lee Camp MintPress News 121522

    The Pentagon – the U.S. “Defense” Department – was just audited for the fifth time. And they just announced they failed for the fifth time. If that’s not accountability, I don’t know what is!

    When I say they “failed” their audit, I don’t mean they put a 9 instead of a 7 on one of the balance sheets, causing two soldiers to get accidentally left in Antarctica freezing their asses off. I mean, they really failed their audit. As The Hill put it, “The Defense Department has failed its fifth-ever audit, unable to account for more than half of its assets, but the—” Hold up. Hold up. Did ya catch that? THEY CAN’T ACCOUNT FOR OVER HALF THEIR ASSETS! THIS IS THE LARGEST MURDER MACHINE ON THE PLANET – NEARLY A TRILLION DOLLARS SPENT EVERY YEAR – AND THEY DON’T KNOW WHERE HALF THEIR SHIT IS?! HOW IS THIS NOT CRIMINAL?

    If you worked at a shoe store, or a hardware store, or a daycare, and you couldn’t locate half your inventory, you’d be locked up right now! But apparently, if you’re simply responsible for more killing on the planet earth than any other modern organization, no one’s held accountable for anything.

    But let me back up for a second. FEDERAL LAW HAS REQUIRED MANDATORY AUDITS OF ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES SINCE 1990. THE PENTAGON SIMPLY IGNORED THAT REQUIREMENT UNTIL 5 YEARS AGO. WHY DID NO ONE IN CONGRESS DEMAND THEY ABIDE BY FEDERAL LAW BEFORE THAT? BECAUSE IT TURNS OUT – THE PENTAGON HAS ALL THE THINGS THAT GO “BANG-BANG.” SO THEY PRETTY MUCH DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.

    But even without that audit, the American people eventually found out that FROM 1998 TO 2015, THERE WERE $21 TRILLION OF UNACCOUNTED-FOR FINANCIAL ADJUSTMENTS ON THE PENTAGON’S BOOKS. ….

    But the government and some of the mainstream media defended this mysterious $21 trillion by saying, “It’s not what you think. It doesn’t mean anything’s missing. It’s just financial discrepancies.” Yet Forbes, which is no lefty commie pinko rag, would disagree. They say, “…THIS IS NOT SIMPLY A MATTER OF BORING ACCOUNTING. TRILLIONS IN UNACCOUNTED OUTLAYS, IF THAT’S WHAT’S INVOLVED HERE, IS TRILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS BEING SPENT WITHOUT OUR KNOWLEDGE. IF THAT’S THE CASE, WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE BIGGEST GOVERNMENT FINANCIAL DECEPTION IN THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY. …WHY IS OUR GOVERNMENT NOW SYSTEMATICALLY HIDING THESE ADJUSTMENTS FROM PUBLIC SIGHT?”

    Continued at https://scheerpost.com/2022/12/15/pentagon-admits-they-cant-account-for-half-their-assets-amid-latest-audit-failure/
    [EMPHASES added.]

    The video on which this article is based is available at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkb-pTQLERw

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  10. OPPOSING WAR IS THE FIRST STEP TOWARD MORAL POLITICS by Caitlin Johnstone

    Forcefully opposing the warmongering and imperialism of your rulers is the very first step toward political morality. It’s not the only step, but it is the first step, because if you haven’t taken that step then no other ostensibly moral politics you might espouse are meaningful.

    Your anti-capitalism is meaningless if you’re not aggressively opposing your government’s mass military murders for power and profit. Your anti-racism is meaningless if you’re not aggressively opposing your government’s butchery and exploitation of brown-skinned people overseas. If you’re not forcefully opposing your government’s warmongering and imperialism, then the rest of your politics are irrelevant, because they are false. A sincerely antiwar right-winger with all the wrong positions on all other issues is still a much better person than you are.

    When I see a lefty voicing solid perspectives without also aggressively opposing the warmongering, militarism and imperialism of their rulers, I personally just ignore them, because their failure in that one area has made a lie of their successes in all the other areas.

    If this seems strange or not obvious to you, it’s simply because you have not spent enough time sincerely contemplating the immense suffering and savagery that is inflicted upon our world by war and imperialism, or learned enough about who the worst offenders are on that front. Literally the only reason western warmongering isn’t met with a backlash of horror and outrage is because it’s been so normalized and propaganda-distorted for us. If we could see what our rulers are doing to people with fresh eyes, we would fall to our knees and scream with rage.

    War is the single worst thing in the world. It’s the most insane thing humans do. The most ruinous. The most traumatizing. The least sustainable. And the US-centralized power alliance is its most egregious perpetrator, by a massive margin.

    There’s no excuse for ignoring this.

    ###

    The least likely outcome for humanity’s future is that we continue along the same trajectory we’ve been on without having to drastically change ourselves and our behavior. That is the least likely thing to happen. We’re headed for massive changes fairly soon, one way or another.

    The humanity of the not-too-distant future operates very differently from the humanity of today, either because it learned to work in cooperation with itself and with its ecosystem or because it’s an extinct species, yet most visions for our future imagine we’ll remain the same. We need to abandon the notion that the humanity of the future will move and operate in more or less the same way as the humanity of today, just with better technology. That is the very least likely of all possible outcomes.

    Full article at https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/opposing-war-is-the-first-step-toward

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  11. I posted a comment which is off topic but it did not post… here it is again…
    THE US govt has no shame….;;

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Not Off Topic at all, RS.

      The fact that the best “post 9/11 battle” the Navy could come up with to name a ship after was Falluja tells anybody who is paying attention everything they need to know about The Forever War.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. RS, your post is like the stereotype of the ‘Ugly American” and it really brings into focus, the main topic of Bill’s Blog.
      I’m here because I share most of Bill’s values and perceptions in wanting to end that stereotype of the Reality once and for all!
      The REALITY is the US is the BIGGEST MERCHANT of DEATH in the History of Nations.

      I clicked on ‘Read 229 replies’ stopping at hakimabuyasin who wrote, “This is equivalent to Germany calling a battle ship “Auschwitz”.
      I also saw this comment by Russ who wrote, “People right wrongs in different ways. Try not to see malice everywhere, it can be hard but try.” and I had to reply this way,
      @hakimabuyasin
      @jeremyscahill
      @georgegalloway

      Unfortunately, watching from CanaDa, I see the US is the biggest projector of malice everywhere.
      Americans have been brainwashed to think they’re exceptional. They’re not! They’re BLIND US Patriots. This Newspaper Record from 1976 said it as it is!

      SIGNS OF THE TIMES

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